Re: Intell

[<RonaldS842@aol.com>]

In a message dated 4/21/01 1:30:29 AM, Jhk789@aol.com writes:

<< << From the 1950's through the early 1970's,
 > the Soviet Union, China
 > and North Korea all shot down American
 > reconnaissance planes. Declassified
 > records indicate that more than 30 planes were lost,
 > and at least 150 airmen
 > were killed or reported missing, some of whom are
 > only now being recognized
 > and honored, leaving their families in the dark for >>

Mike, 

Thanks for the hekpful background info!

Do you know how many planes were lost over N.Korea?
Are we still sending these recon/spy planes over N.Korea?
Can the recent Navy plane incident also happen near N.Korea too?

John
 >>

Hi all-
  Hey, it's all part of the public domain today.  These recent events are of 
particular interest to me because I was doing the  same thing in 1951-1954.  
We were involved in 2 simultaneous wars in those years. Each had very little 
to do with the other.
   I would like to tell those guys that they have a whole long life ahead of 
them but 40 or 50 years from now they will look back and rate what they are 
doing now as  the most interesting, eventful and rewarding of their lives.
   In 1995 David Kahn asked me to write a memoir of my experiences. At that 
time I was so intimidated that I declined. You have to experience the harsh 
interrogation and threats you go through in declassification for return to 
civilian life. Some of my friends are still reluctant to talk about it today 
after all this time.
    I have kept a small file over the years and can answer some questions and 
I would like to ask a couple that have me perplexed.
   U.S. News and World Report , March 15 1993 devoted an entire issue and ran 
a special investigative Report on America's Top-Secret Spy War. In the 50's 
and 60's the U.S. lost more than 130 airmen in missions against the Soviet 
Union. The truth never came out. On pages 32 and 33 there is a complete 
listing (well, I can tell you it's not really complete) of aircraft and 
numbers lost, date of loss, aircraft type, crew on board, dead, and map 
references with a globe picture identifying where the aircraft went down (one 
in mainland USSR on May 1 1960, one over Cuba on Oct 27 1962). A total of 31 
aircraft, 252 crew and 162 dead or not found. 
    Yes, a couple went down over North Korea but I can tell you that NK was 
really not of strategic importance or interest to us. We were absolutely 
convinced that war with USSR was imminent and would start at any time the 
Soviets felt we were vulnerable. I know this information was credible and I 
can tell you it was obtained at the maximum sacrifice of some very heroic 
people who will never be known, except to God.
   But we did recognize a few:
   An article by Michael E. Ruane Knight-Ridder Newspapers dated September 3, 
1997 and datelined Fort Meade, Md. 4 MiG fighters attacked and shot down an 
unarmed C-130 with rockets and cannon fire on Sept. 2, 1958 killing all 17 
aboard. As with all the rest, the news of this incident was supressed until 
the crew was finally memorialized with a ceremony at Fort Meade 40 years 
later. 
   Another article datelined Washington, Associated Press the Air Force 
presented posthumous awards to 12 Americans, including a Berkeley Calif man,  
shot down a RB-29  on a spy mission along the Pacific coast of what was then 
the Soviet Union. This incident on June 13, 1952 off Vladivostok.
   As for my questions:
   Why is the Navy now flying these missions? In my day all aerial 
intelligence gathering was done by the United States Air Force Security 
Service. The Navy did their bit from ship board and the Army (ASA) from the 
ground.  
    Why are these missions still being flown pretty much the same way they 
were 50 years ago? Satellites are surely more efficient and electronic 
signals of all kinds can be monitored and identified from ground bases. 
   We used planes to provoke, make sure they used red-alert and they were 
serious so that we were sure of their capabilities. And I can tell you we 
knew every (almost :-) Russian and Chinese pilot by name and how good they 
were. 
   The mission seems to be different today but I can't quite figure it out. 
Maybe Mike or Ed has the answer. 

Ronald D. Schultz
Moraga, CA