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Re: Col Toon.
One interesting fact, there are a lot of warbird aircraft rebuilds going on.
Simply amazing. The Russians are building new Yak 3 and 9 and Ratas. Several
P40s are popping up, Zeros, Bf109, a Me335. someone is building 6 Me262. There
are about 150 Mustangs restored. You name it someone is rebuilding or
Then there is the Reno Air Racing.
The dogfighting scene in Pearl Harbor the planes were too close but the shock of
the attack felt real and violent. Maybe Spielberg could do a D-Day reality
version of ari warfare. Give it the gritty and provoking reality. Especially
the top pilots fears that were never reported about. Then add it to the ones
who did not make it.
Mike Yared wrote:
> Director Steven Spielberg may make a movie about the Israeli air force.
> The film would tell the story of eight American pilots who trained Israeli
> pilots after the 1967 Six Day War. Spielberg said he got the idea after he
> sat in the cockpit with an Six Day War veteran on an El Al flight from New
> York to Tel Aviv. "I love the idea because it's an amazing story," he said."
> He may have the date wrong since the following pilots were from WWII. A few
> flew in the Korean War.
> Lou Lenart (ex USMC aviator and now a film producer ["Iron Eagle"]) USAF
> Milton Rubenfeld
> Coleman Goldstein (USAF)
> Aaron Finkel (USAF)
> Sidney Antin (USAF)
> Rudy Augarten USAF)
> Chris Magee (USMC)
> Mitchell Flynt (USN)
> Mike Yared
> >From: "Daniel T. Fahey" <DanFahey@DanSources.com>
> >Reply-To: KOREAN-WAR-L@raven.cc.ku.edu
> >To: <KOREAN-WAR-L@raven.cc.ku.edu>
> >Subject: RE: Col Toon.
> >Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 11:49:01 -0500
> >Thanks.. I thought that was what happened.
> >Being sensitive to avoid a world political crisis is a rational reason.
> >Though I think it is FOS...
> >It seems every conflict I have read mercenary pilots were hired or
> >clandestine associations were negotiated. I believe that the USA had
> >piolots fying witht he Israeli's during its battles. They surely wre
> >providint them with Aircraft and better understand the dual citizenship
> >arrangement the USA and Israel have.
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: owner-KOREAN-WAR-L@raven.cc.ku.edu
> >[mailto:owner-KOREAN-WAR-L@raven.cc.ku.edu]On Behalf Of Mike Yared
> >Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 11:24 AM
> >To: KOREAN-WAR-L@raven.cc.ku.edu
> >Subject: Re: Col Toon.
> >two email copied:
> >*From: "Sherwood.John" <Sherwood.John@nhc.navy.mil>
> >to: H-War
> >Subject: REPLY: North Vietnamese Fighter Aces
> >Date Written: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 08:20:30 -0400
> >Date Posted: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 14:22:43 -0500
> >This is an unclassified list compiled by Rob Young of the National Air
> >Intel Center History Office:
> >Nguyen Van Coc 9
> >Luu Huy Chao 8
> >Mai Van Cuong 8
> >Pham Thanh Ngan 8
> >Nguyen Hong Nhi 8
> >Nguyen Van Bay 7
> >Vu Ngoc Dinh 6
> >Nguyen Ngoc Do 6
> >Dang Ngoc Ngu 6
> >Nguyen Duc Soat 6
> >I have another more definitive list compiled by Istvan Toperczer, a
> >Hungarian Air Force officer and the author of the _Air war over North
> >Vietnam: the Vietnamese People's Air Force: 1949-1975_. However, I need to
> >consult with him before posting that list on H-War. Both Toperczer and
> >Young vehemently deny the existance of Toon and have hard evidence to back
> >up their claims. Anyone interested in this subject should consult
> >Toperczer's book. I met with Toperczer two weeks ago in Budapest and
> >learned that he is working on a more detailed follow-on work to be
> >in the near future. He also informed me that Osprey plans to reprint his
> >first book. He's a very skilled researcher who has interviewed many of the
> >top Vietnamese officers, and in my opinion has compiled the definitive
> >statistics on this issue.
> >John Darrell Sherwood, Ph.D.
> >Naval Historical Center (CH)
> >805 Kidder Breese St., SE
> >Washington Navy Yard
> >Washington, DC 20374-5060
> >*From: "Robert S. Hopkins, III" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
> >from H-War
> >Subject: REPLY: Foreigners in North Vietnam
> >Author's Subject: REPLY: Foreigners in North Vietnam
> >Date Written: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 12:35:00 -0600
> >Date Posted: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 09:15:00 -0600
> >The question of foreign pilots flying MiGs for the Vietnamese Peoples' Air
> >Force (VPAF) is still a mystery. On 10 May 1972, U.S. Navy pilot and RSO
> >Randy Cunningham and Willie Driscoll downed three MiG-17s, making them the
> >war's first aces (they had two previous "kills"). The final victory was
> >what "Duke" Cunningham told me was one of the
> >best pilots against whom he had ever flown. The pilot of this final "kill"
> >was reportedly a "Colonel Tomb" (also "Toon"), the VPAF leading ace with 13
> >"kills." When Cunningham, first in his capacity as an instructor at VF-126
> >(one of the U.S. Navy Adversary units) and later as a member of the U.S.
> >House of Representatives, tried to get copies of audio tapes made of the
> >radio transmissions between the pilot of the last MiG he and Driscoll shot
> >down and the Vietnamese ground controllers, Cunningham was (and still has
> >been) denied access to them as "too sensitive, and he lacked a 'need to
> >know'." In my own research on this issue (published in the late _Journal of
> >Military Aviation_, I address the *possibility* that the pilot was not
> >Vietnamese and was perhaps Russian. If so, this would have been especially
> >sensitive, considering it meant that U.S. and Soviet pilots were in direct
> >combat with one another, regardless of the nationality of the airplane.
> >is not unheard of, as Soviet pilots are now known to have flown in DRK
> >MiG-15s during the Korean War. Jack Broughton, a retired F-105 pilot,
> >relates in his book _Thud Ridge_ that on one occasion he saw a VPAF MiG-19
> >so close that he could visually discriminate the pilot, who, he said, had
> >the blondest hair and the bluest eyes, suggesting someone other than an
> >Asian. At least one source with whom I spoke suggested that the mysterious
> >Colonel Tomb was a special radio identification given by U.S. Electronic
> >Security Command eavesdroppers (who monitored VPAF air-to-ground and
> >ground-to-air radio transmissions) to *any* non-Vietnamese pilot who was
> >airborne. We know that the Soviets did send instructors to teach the VPAF
> >pilots, especially when they acquired later variants of the MiG-21. It is
> >not inconceivable that one or more of these instructors found themselves in
> >combat. [A similar situation occurred over Egypt when Israeli F-4s and
> >Mirage IIIs shot down five Egyptian MiG-21s piloted by Soviet instructors.]
> >Perhaps other members of this discussion group can shed further light on
> >foreign pilots flying with the VPAF.
> >Robert S. Hopkins, III, Ph.D.
> >(he is at http://www.shemya.net/KC-135.html)
> >Mike Yared
> > >From: Love Shack <Home@DanSources.com>
> > >Reply-To: KOREAN-WAR-L@raven.cc.ku.edu
> > >To: KOREAN-WAR-L@raven.cc.ku.edu
> > >Subject: Col Toon.
> > >Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:41:50 -0800
> > >
> > >Cookie:
> > >I have seen several articles about Col Toon and his battle with Duke
> > >Cunningham.
> > >However I never see his name in the NV register as one of their pilots.
> > >Nuygen Van Coc yes.. Col Toon ..NONE.
> > >Do you have any information?
> > >
> > >Dan Fahey
> > >
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