Re: Panther V Mig Redux

["Diego Zampini" <dzampini@hotmail.com>]

Dan:

>Other then speed what were the technical differences
>between the Mig and Panther? I figure the Mig had a
>better climb. The Panther better Maneuverability and
>Firepower.

You are right in the topic of the better climbing rate of the MiG. But 
according to my sources the MiG-15 was more maneuverable than the Panther, 
specially above 10,000 mts (30,000 feet), and also dived better (despite it 
could not maintain it for much longer). And with one 37 mm and two 23 mm 
cannons, the MiG-15 had more firepower than the Panther, despite that the 
four 20 mm cannons of the F9F were certainly a better weaponry than the six 
0.50 machineguns of the F-86.

>What other information do you have on the battles between
>the Mig and Navy?

According to my ´Enciclopedia Ilustrada de la Aviación´ (Aviation Ilustrated 
Encyclopedia) there were an encounter between MiG-15s and F2H Banshees on 
September 16 1951. During the battle a MiG and a F2H collided in mid-air, 
and the F2H barely could return to its carrier, the USS Essex. But during 
the landing the pilot loose control and crashed against other 4 F2Hs, 
destroying them and killing 8 men and hurting 27 in the following fire. I 
could confirm it in the DMPO list of aircraft losses. The USS Essex was 
forced to withdrew out of Korea until October 3. Apparently the MiG which 
collided with the Banshee was Chinese.
The Chinese MiG-15s seemed to be also the responsibles for the shooting down 
of a USMC F4U of VMF-312 (whose pilot, Folmar, claimed to shot down a MiG 
before being himself shot down) on September 10 1952, and one USN F4U-4B on 
each October 4 and October 7 1952. Both US aviators (Eugene Johnson and 
J.Shaughnessy) unfortunatelly died in the crashes.
The last encounter between MiG-15s and Phanters probably happened on 
November 21 1952, when a MiG-15 pilot of the 415th IAP, 133rd IAD; Sr.Lt. 
N.M.Sokurenko, claimed to shot down an ´F-84´. The guncamera images clairly 
shows the ´Thunderjet´ bursting into flames, so I personally believe in such 
claim. The problem with his claim is that there were no F-84s reported as 
lost that day. But there were 2 F9F-2 losses that day, and despite those 
losses were credited to the flak fire, due to the reasons I mentioned before 
(the MiG pilots usually missidentified the Panthers with F-84s, and many 
shootdowns credited to AAA were actually blasted out the sky by MiG-15s) I 
think the victim of Sokurenko was the F9F-2 BuNo 127201 of VF-23. Of course, 
I could be wrong about the matter. If you Cookie or Danz disagree with me 
about it, let me know.

>I know the Fury managed to knock 1 to 4 Migs down.

I saw Cookie already gave you good info. I will only add that the confirmed 
MiG kill obtained by the Royal Navy was scored by the Sea Fury pilot Peter 
Carmichael (No.802 Sqn) on August 9 1952, and the incident where one Seafire 
was shot down by friendly fire of a B-29 happened on July 28 1950.

>What I cannot determine are our Allies losses or
>air to air victories that flew with us. Are there any
>books or other information that I can look up that you know of?

I can give you the figure of losses of Australian Meteor losses: 32. At 
least 5 Meteors of No.77 Sqn RAAF were shot down by Soviet MiG-15s, the 
first one on August 29 1951 when Lev K. Shchukin (18 GvIAP, 303 IAD) shot 
down the Meteor of Ronald Guthrie (POW). Three more Meteors were bagged on 
December 1 1951 by the MiG-15s of the 176 GvIAP, 324 IAD; plus one more on 
May 12 1952 by a Chinese MiG and the last one on October 2 1952 by the 
Soviet MiG-15 pilot F.Fedotov of 518 IAP, 216 IAD (the Australian pilot, 
Oliver Cruikshank, is MIA). Besides that, it seems that 7 more Meteors which 
barely survived encounters with MiGs September-October 1951 were written off 
after landing because the heavy damage caused by 37 and 23 mm shells from 
the MiG-15s. Other 20 Meteors fell due to the flak fire. The Australian 
Meteor pilots claimed 5 MiG kills and some more probable/damaged, but any of 
them are confirmed by Soviet records.
I guess you can find such info with much more details in the book "Odd Jobs. 
RAAF Operations in Japan, the Berlin Airlift, Korea, Malaya and Malta 
(1946-60)” of 1996. I do not have the book, but most of the info I 
showed you now was extracted from that book.
I guess I answered most of your doubts and questions.
Sincerely too,
Diego Zampini

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