Re: Panther V Mig Redux

[Joe Brennan <jbren1@optonline.net>]

Some additional comments and questions on Diego Zampini's last response re:
Naval a/c vs. MiG's if anyone has further info or comment

-the three Corsair shootdowns listed 9/10, 10/4 and 10/7, are in US
accounts. Can I assume still no specific "UAF" accounts of those actions
have come to light? They are not recognizable in the 1059 doc and only 1 is
on http://www.webruler.com/aircombat/
page of PLAAF claims (is that the best public source btw?)

-9/16/51 multi a/c landing accident caused by Keller's F2H BuNo124968.
Korwald says "collision" but Air Group 5 action rep. says collision between
a/c of Keller and Oxley after a bomb run on a bridge. That cruise debut of
the Banshee in Korea, unique mission VF-172 Banshee/VF-51 Panther escort
8/25/51 for B-29 raid on Najin near the Soviet border rare "jointness" for
those days, but no MiG's. Action report also gives group's thoughts on
escort tactics but no mention of any air action.

 -11/21/52 two F9F's were lost, BuNo 127201 was VF-23 Essex t/o accident,
but BuNo 125145 VF-721  Kearsarge was attributed to AAA (Hopping MIA). Air
Group report "AAA" carrier's report "probable AAA". Location, "10m W
Yangdok", ie.midway between Pyongyang and Wonsan and a little north, well
outside MiG alley. Though most USN encounters w/ MiG's were outside most MiG
ops weren't so if any Russian source gives loc. it could be a clue for the
theory. I see the g/c photo (can't rule out F9F) and date in the article but
not noted in 1059 doc.

And to add one: 3/10/52 MiG's attacked 2 F2H-2P's recon Banshee's of VMJ-1,
damaged both, 1 a write off. Hallion "Naval Air War" quoting Naval Aviation
News, in Cookie Sewell's chrono. but not in Korwald.

Joe Brennan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Diego Zampini" <dzampini@hotmail.com>
To: <KOREAN-WAR-L@raven.cc.ku.edu>
Cc: <DanFahey@DanSources.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2002 9:02 AM
Subject: Re: Panther V Mig Redux



> >What other information do you have on the battles between
> >the Mig and Navy?
>
> According to my ´Enciclopedia Ilustrada de la Aviación´ (Aviation
Ilustrated
> Encyclopedia) there were an encounter between MiG-15s and F2H Banshees on
> September 16 1951. During the battle a MiG and a F2H collided in mid-air,
> and the F2H barely could return to its carrier, the USS Essex. But during
> the landing the pilot loose control and crashed against other 4 F2Hs,
> destroying them and killing 8 men and hurting 27 in the following fire. I
> could confirm it in the DMPO list of aircraft losses. The USS Essex was
> forced to withdrew out of Korea until October 3. Apparently the MiG which
> collided with the Banshee was Chinese.
> The Chinese MiG-15s seemed to be also the responsibles for the shooting
down
> of a USMC F4U of VMF-312 (whose pilot, Folmar, claimed to shot down a MiG
> before being himself shot down) on September 10 1952, and one USN F4U-4B
on
> each October 4 and October 7 1952. Both US aviators (Eugene Johnson and
> J.Shaughnessy) unfortunatelly died in the crashes.
> The last encounter between MiG-15s and Phanters probably happened on
> November 21 1952, when a MiG-15 pilot of the 415th IAP, 133rd IAD; Sr.Lt.
> N.M.Sokurenko, claimed to shot down an ´F-84´. The guncamera images
clairly
> shows the ´Thunderjet´ bursting into flames, so I personally believe in
such
> claim. The problem with his claim is that there were no F-84s reported as
> lost that day. But there were 2 F9F-2 losses that day, and despite those
> losses were credited to the flak fire, due to the reasons I mentioned
before
> (the MiG pilots usually missidentified the Panthers with F-84s, and many
> shootdowns credited to AAA were actually blasted out the sky by MiG-15s) I
> think the victim of Sokurenko was the F9F-2 BuNo 127201 of VF-23. Of
course,
> I could be wrong about the matter. If you Cookie or Danz disagree with me
> about it, let me know.
>
 > Sincerely too,
> Diego Zampini
>
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