I love it when you guys fight - however, I am really confused about what the truth might be about the Korean War's "casualties" - don't you love that word? Is there really no definitive information? GerneyLee P.S. Anyhow, the binoculars appear to be a joke... not intended to be real - huh? I think Clinton was a good president, but a scoundrel as a man with women. I LOVE BUSH though, I'm a Republican and a member of DAR and DAC. Has any one checked out E. Ralph McIntosh's new Web site dedicated to 24D/21st Gimlets? I just mailed him some more pictures to post. ----- Original Message ----- From: Love Shack Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2002 2:48 PM To: KOREAN-WAR-L@raven.cc.ku.edu Subject: Nomonhan- Also called the Forgotten War Trying to get an idea of the history of the area I went back to 1900 and
saw that Japan had been in Korea and parts of Manchuria and Mongolia.
The Mongols were the Japanese old nemisis' from the days of Gengis Khan.
Nomonhan started in 1938 because they Japanese would not let the Mongols
cross the river Halha (Khalkhin Gol). They Mongols attacked and a series
of attacks and counter attacks proceded. The Japanese were incensed that
anyone dare attack them. Tell that to the Mongols.
The Japanese started moving in large reinforcements. Timing of this is
interesting, Russia came to the assistance of Mongolia. The Stalin purge
ended. General Zhokov(sp?) was the Army commander and that used the T34
against the Japanese Reneult tanks and their own designs.
The Rusian airforce used the I-152 and I-153 and I-16. This is where
General Chenault learned a bunch about air tactics. The historians are
still sorting out the air war. It seems the Japanese got the better of
the Russians at 2:1 to 1.5:1 ratio.
The I-152 and later model I-153 were useless according to some accounts.
Mostly due to the unreliable engines.
But what developed was the air commanders changed tactics. No
dogfighting, the newer modle I-16 carried two 20mm cannon and two
machine guns. The used boom and zoom tactics and speed. This really
frustrated the Japanese pilots because toward the end of the conflict
were taking a a relative beating in the air.
The Ki27 took over the roles of the A5M and Ki10. All these planes,
including the Riussians, had good and poor features. The Japanese Navy
saw this develoment and the A6M2 Zero was developed. So were Russian
tactics. Chennault developed his techniques which were used with the
AVG. The identical tactics the Russian used against the Japanes at
Nomonhan and later in Korea against the US/UN.
On the ground the Japanes got beat faily badly. I thing in one week of
battle the Japanese lost 25000 men. Russian Tanks against Sword
wielding Japanese. The Russians took some heavy losses but nothing
like the Japanese. Reminds me of the Vietnmese attacks against the
French and US. Despite losses both forces were locked in a series of
battles and not going anywhere fast.
Here are some dates to help you with the timing.
1933. Hitler takes power as Fuerher.
1934. Japan versus China on the China Mainland.
1936. The Spanish Civil War.
1939. The Invasion of Poland.
8/ 23/1939: Molotov/Ribbentrop sign the German-Soviet Non Aggression
Treaty.
9/1/1939: The German Army crosses the Polish Border.
9/3/1939: Britain/France declare War on Germany.
9/4/1939: News of the Struggle at Nomonhan reaches German ears for the
first time.
9/17/1939: Russia invades Poland.
9/18/1939: France launches limited counterattacks against the Siegfreid
Line.
Well what this mean? Japan and Russian had enough as they were using
up too many resources. Japan had other plans and wanted easier to get
land and signed a peace treaty with Russia. Both signed a treaty.
Resources were badly needed back in Moscow. The Russians were in a big
Battle with the Finns who were just as tenatious as the Japanese.
Russia got pounded by the Germans but without moving most of its troops
to the West, Stalin would have had to surrender.
Like with Japan, Russia traded land for time. The same land battle
tactic with Germany. With the Finns..well they were just plane
smarter. Had Japan kept up its war with Russia and Had Japan and
Germany coordinated better WW2 would have been a differerent outcome.
This was where critical communucations shoulda coulda woulda happened
and did not.
How does this lead to Korea. All of Korea was well indoctrinated into
Japanese way of doing things. After 1945 a major political void was
created and no one thought how to get it reorganized. Russia got back
Port Arthur and use Mongolia, China got back Manchuria. Korea looked
like a certain Marine with Loraina Bobbet ready for disection.
The air war over Korea proceeded much the same way Nomonhan did. Except
pilots could not easily land to pick up shotdown comrads. Though the
USA did have the new heliocopter.
Duirng the Nomonhan Incident, as they call it, Japanese pilots averaged
1000 hours flight and to 200 hours by the Russians.The Russians used
boom and zoom, Cannon equipped fighters against a better trained
airforce with a more manurverable aircraft with machine guns. Our pilots
had good planes with better training. Each side had its Honcho's. The
air to air ratio was about the same.
This 15 year period leading up to Korea in 1950 is interesting
Including being called the Forgotten War of WW2.
Dan Fahey
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