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Re: Chosin Few



On the first point that's interesting if true.
 
But the second I believe your attribution of motivation is incorrect. Peiping "northern peace", rather than peking/bejing/bukgyung [Korean pronunciation of those Chinese characters]="northern capital" was what the Chinese Nationalists dubbed the city after they temporarily re-unified the country in the late 20's. So anti-communist Americans made a point for a while of referring to it as Peiping to underline their belief in the legitmacy of the Nationalists v. the Communists, not to "denigrate China". Unless one is so far to the left as to equate denigrating the Chinese Communists (the "people's liberators?") with denigrating China.
 
Third point, consider Persian Gulf/"Arabian Gulf". But "Arabian Gulf" likely to be confused with Arabian Sea; anyway Persian Gulf is basically standard English; it implies no judgement about Iran v. Arabia. Likewise the body of water of which you speak is "dong hai" in Korean, East Sea, definitely not "il bon hai", Japan Sea. But there is no standard English geographic term East Sea. In fact since the Japanese word for Pacific Ocean, "tokai", is the same Chinese characters as "dong hai" it would be even more confusing for English speakers to start calling the Sea of Japan "East Sea".
 
The whole issue of old/new transliterations of  place names once rendered in Chinese characters can never imply predjudice. Those same old characters (call them "hanmun" or "kanji" from a Korean or Japanese perspective if you like, it doesn't make them not just the Chinese ideographs, with perhaps minor difference in rendering) are pronounced all different ways in Chinese dialects not to mention Korean, Japanese and other languages of Chinese influenced cultures. So getting on Westerners' cases for the strange mispronunciations/mistransliterations of the past is ridiculous in general, and as for place names of battles it's what they were called by the combatants at the time; that's a generally accepted historical practice.
 
Joe
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: ysk
Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 10:25 AM
Subject: Re: Chosin Few

Right -
 
It reminds me of the case of the "Yellow" Emperor of China.   An American student of the Chinese language erroneously translated "Hwang-je" - The First Emperor.  The Chinese character can mean 'yellow', 'first', etc. depending on the context of its use.   In spite of this fact, some Westerners - Sinophobes - still call 'chin-si-hwang-je" the 'yellow' emperor of China - vs. "The First Emperor of China".  This is their way of denigrating China.
 
Dean Rusk - the dean of America's anti-China lobby - insisted on calling Beijing - "Peiping", a Western colonial term.  That was Rusk's way of showing his contempt for things Chinese.
 
"Sea of Japan" is another example.  Koreans have been calling it the "East Sea" since the days when Japan was inhabited by a bunch of head-hunting samurais. 
 
 
ysk
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Love Shack
Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 6:50 AM
Subject: Re: Chosin Few

We had to change the name of Peking to Bejine.
I do not understand the the issue either..changing it back to Chanjin or whatever the correct spelling is?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 11:40 PM
Subject: Re: Chosin Few

Isn't this the same thing as the Sons of Confederate Veterans in the Southern United States arguing that
Bullrun 1 and 2 should be knows as First and Second Manassas (which the South won twice). 
 
Err... except in this case there are South Koreans in the Chosin Few who apparently agree with the name.
Korean website explaining everything that's been said so far in English.
No one seems offended.
 
Here is an article in which the Korean times has a non-Korean writer who uses both.
 
 
 
The Korean Embassy doesn't edit Chosin for Changjin...
umm...
 
 
JHK - what are all your reasons why it needs to be changed to Changjin - and are you trying to convince us
or just get our reactions?   I just don't understand why you are trying to change peoples' minds on this issue.
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 10:53 PM
Subject: Re: Chosin Few

Why would we even consider changing it? I think the suggestion was because it might offend some people, My answer to that is simply, if they get offended TOUGH S--T! That's the name we chose, that's the name we want. That's the name it will remain-live with it! Lee