Re: Wars

[Joe Brennan <jbren1@optonline.net>]

My point is nothing more we could have done with napalm or air generally
would have changed the big picture of the war (somebody suggested napalming
Chinese supply lines would have made a difference; I don't think we felt any
reluctance to).  Once the Chinese entered a stalemate was the best possible
outcome, without nukes.

We were able to push them back mostly north of the 38th parallel from the
spring of '51 but if we'd neared their border again, where Korea becomes a
lot wider and less defensible, they could have been expected to pour in
whatever manpower it took to push us back down again. Whereas we had much
more limited manpower, had to think of the defense of Europe too.

It was said it was a "political" decision to settle for a half loaf in
Korea. True but also an unavoidable decision w/o nuclear war IMO.

Joe
----- Original Message -----
From: "unclgene" <unclgene@pacbell.net>
To: <KOREAN-WAR-L@raven.cc.ku.edu>
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 4:08 PM
Subject: RE: Wars


> Had it not been for napalm I would not be here. I would never ever want to
> be an infantryman without air superiority.
>
> Gene
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-KOREAN-WAR-L@raven.cc.ku.edu
> [mailto:owner-KOREAN-WAR-L@raven.cc.ku.edu]On Behalf Of Joe Brennan
> Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 12:03 PM
> To: KOREAN-WAR-L@raven.cc.ku.edu
> Subject: Re: Wars
>
>
> I think it shows "won" all depends on the goals and they're often changed
> not only during the war but after.
>
> The goal of the Mexican war wasn't to anihilate Mexico or somehow change
it
> to be the same as the US but to secure the US felt it was its "manifest
> destiny", in the phrase of the time, to control. The US completely
succeeded
> in that goal. I find it a stretch to turn that one around based on what,
> immigration issue? 150yrs later.
>
> Two more interesting examples are the Persian Gulf War and I'd say WWI
could
> be put in the same category. We completely succeeded with the original
goal,
> but it didn't eliminate the threat (Saddam or German militarism
> respectively). and so people have subsequently, with some reason, changed
> the goal in analyzing those successes.
>
> In Korea, we like many combatants successful in the initial phase of a
war,
> changed our goal in midstream from saving SK from communist domination to
> eliminating communism from the K peninsula, at which larger goal we
failed,
> while salvaging success in the original goal.
>
> More on topic than earlier parts of note, I find it very debatable that it
> was within our power to completely defeat China in Korea, non-nuclearly. I
> don't think it's plausible at all to say use or not of napalm on any
> paritcular mission made any difference. The whole problem before the CCF
> intervention was reconnaisance and intelligence failure, not ROEl. And
later
> ROE issue about air operations north of Yalu can be exaggerated too. It's
> not obvious that complete freedom of our air to operate north of the Yalu
> (our F-86's apparently *did* operate pretty freely over China to the limit
> of their range from April 52) would have had a dramtic impact on the
overall
> war, esp. considering the effect of the communists breaking their side of
> the implicit bargain and seriously bombing our bases in SK and Japan.
>
> Joe
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "swan" <swan@haysco.net>
> To: <KOREAN-WAR-L@raven.cc.ku.edu>
> Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 1:56 PM
> Subject: Re: Wars
>
>
> > The last time I noticed, the Mexican government is still the same one
they
> > had before the Mexican War. And It poses an even greater threat to us
> today
> > than when we went to war with them. Spain isn't really a threat to
anyone.
> > But their government is the same.
> >
> > Bob Dove
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Marc James Small" <msmall@infi.net>
> > To: <KOREAN-WAR-L@raven.cc.ku.edu>
> > Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 11:01 AM
> > Subject: Wars
> >
> >
> > At 10:56 AM 9/23/02 -0500, swan wrote:
> > No, Lee, we reached a stalemate. All we really accomplished is that we
> > repelled the invaders. We did not defeat them, because they still
control
> > the same territory they controlled before the invasion. And they still
> pose
> > the same threat, or an even greater threat  than they posed before the
> > invasion. We won the American Revolution. Y'all won the Civil War. We
won
> > World War I and World War II. That is all the wars the United States has
> > ever won.
> > -------------------
> >
> > Interesting point, Bob.  What about the Mexican War, the
Spanish-American
> > War, and the Indian Wars?
> >
> > Marc
> >
> > msmall@infi.net  FAX:  +276/343-7315
> > Cha robh bąs fir gun ghrąs fir!
> >
> >
> >
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