At 01:40 AM 12/20/02 EST, ChosinMead@aol.com wrote:I am one of the people who do not admire Mac. I believe he was an selfserving ego maniac. His ever action was intended to enhance his image. Consider his statement regarding the Phillipines, "I shall return"- not WE shall return. Or at Inchon, "We will land at Inchon and 'I' will crush them!"His actions at the Bonus March was not the action of leader. He screwed up the defense of the Phillipines, and didn't even have the courage to stay and be present at the surrender- Does anyone really believe that Roosevelt ordered him out? How great was he at Inchon? Anyone can come up with an idea and then tell someone else to implement it. Chosin was his greatest failure, his refusal to accept the intelligence given him was responsible for the lives of thousands of men. ---------------------------------- Wow! What a plethora of mistakes and failed reasoning there are here! To respond to the off-topic ones: "I shall return" was the perfect public pronouncement for the Philippines in that era. The Philippines loved the term and still honor MacArthur for saying it. (In the Philippine Army to this day, at roll call, the final name called is always, "Douglas MacArthur", and the junior man present stands forth and answers, "here in spirit!".) The phrase was directed to speak to the Philippine nationals and it did just that. MacArthur was not at his best in the defense of the Philippines but, once he ordered the switch from RAINBOW back to ORANGE, his withdrawal was masterful and, in places, brilliant. He had fine subordinates and a well-honed staff, and used them with precision and skill. His own spirit was driven down by the lies of Roosevelt and Marshall but, in the end, he pulled out of this slump to become the most successful US General of the Second World War. Yes, Roosevelt ordered MacArthur out, at the urging of Churchill and Marshall. MacArthur was shocked at the receipt of the orders and wanted to resign his commission and go to Bataan as a civilian volunteer. He was dissuaded from this by his staff, especially RADM Rockwell, the Naval District Commander. This is all too well documented to require discussion. I am not certain what your comments on the Bonus Marchers mean or are meant to mean. MacArthur was given orders, orders intensely distasteful to him, and carried them out as well as could anyone in his position. He took personal responsibility to shield his subordinates from any blame which resulted. (Note that the men who gave him his orders, Herbert Hoover and Pat Hurley, remained warm and close friends until MacArthur's death.) On-Topic: Yes, he took personal credit for CHROMITE but, then, why not? He conceived it, over the objections of his own staff. He got Washington to approve it, despite the objections of the Joint Chiefs of Staff -- he even had to remind the Chief of Naval Operations that, "the Navy has NEVER let this nation down, and they shall not do so here!" The ONLY support he had for CHROMITE was from the Marines, who understood the brilliance of the conception and who demanded to be included. And it succeeded, brilliantly. We give Edison credit for the light bulb and Lee the credit for winning Chancellorsville -- why not grant MacArthur the credit for conceiving, developing, and conducting CHROMITE? The withdrawal from the Yalu -- which involved a LOT more folks than just the Marines, Army, and British at Choisin! -- was not anticipated either by MacArthur or by his staff. But, then, they had been told, for months and months and months, that there was not the slightest chance of CHICOM intervention. They had been told this by Beedle Smith's CIA, by Dean Acheson's State Department, and by George Marshall's Department of Defense. Not a single soul in DC bothered to tell anyone in FEC, including MacArthur, of the warnings being given the US by the Indians and other nations -- for that matter, very little of the relevant intelligence was ever shared with FEC, thanks to Beedle Smith's insistence that the CIA do all of the intel analysis. (Smith never took the fall for this but it is most interesting to note that his former boss, Eisenhower, refused to keep him on in ANY role in his administration.) And thanks for walking the General across the street. He was getting a bit doddery by then. Marc msmall@infi.net FAX: +276/343-7315 Cha robh bàs fir gun ghràs fir!