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Re: What is "MiG Alley"?



The 30k altitude and dive was the ONLY distinct advantage the P47 had.
The P51 could do the same except for the initial acceleration.
 
Yes it had other qualities but Fighter to Fighter in a dogfight
it was not as sucessful and you always had to stay high.
Boom and Zoom was what made it a suscessful BUT it is HARD
to hit a target at 500mph.  The speed and team tactics forced the Germans to break off.
 
The rest of the flight envelop was ok if there was enough altitude.
Turning performance was ponderous and worst of all the combatants.
It had an excellent Roll Rate so the P47 could beat its quarry to the Turn.
But had very poor sustained turn rate. Accelerated slowly
Down low it was vulnerable and climbed not much better then a P40.
Energy management was key to survival.
 
The P51 was in combat 18 months less then the Thunderbolt in ETO
yet shot down more aircraft and had more ground kills.
 
One of the weaknesses of the Radial aircraft were the large oil tanks.
When hit near that tank they burst in to flames.
 
At a Warbirds convention the P47 pilots learned to fight well.
They all admitted the P51 was a much better performer.
Was more maneuverable, faster, better climb and could
dog fight at low altitude.
 
As far as straffing with a P51 they did very well in Korea.
They could loiter over a combat zone for 3 hours.
Far longer then any other aircraft at the time.
 
The USAF lost about 350 Mustangs but the Navy lost
a lot of Corsairs, Skyraiders, Bearcats, and Tigercats in combat.
 
Dan Fahey
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Les Hanson
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2003 3:53 PM
Subject: Re: What is "MiG Alley"?

Dan,
         "The thunderbolt could also drop like a rock,which was an advantage in air battle.
          Luftwaffe pilots would find out that trying to break-off combat and the drive a way was suicidal tactic when dealing with the thunderbolt.
           The P47 could easily reach 885 KPH(550 MPH) in a dive,and some pilots claimed it could even break the sound barrier,but it appears that the airspeed indicator simply went crazy at high speed."
                        
             I have a WW2 P-47 pilot living  here a few units from me,he served in the Italy campaign MTO 1944-1945 with the 12th  AAF 27th Bomb group,523d Fighter Squadron,100 missions ,and what we are reading here is to his discussions with me on the good side of the truth.
              Never strafe a train with a P-51.
Les
----- Original Message -----
From: Love Shack
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2003 10:35 AM
Subject: Re: What is "MiG Alley"?

That P47 never got near the 760 mph and lived.
It had a tendancy to tuck under and no matter of strength could put it out.
The same thing happened with the Lightning, Corsair and other AC where
Control Lock occurred over the rear stabilizer. Several WW2 Fighter AC
sucessfully exceeded .80 mach(608mph),  but ath was under 20k, carefully.
 
For comparison, today best of the souped up WW2 Reno Racers
are near .75mach (570+mph) in level flight.
 
One Korean Corsair Pilot broke his hip in the process of not becoming a permanant casualty.
Yet the plane was written of as permanently bent. (This is a fact.)
 
One reported characteristic of the F86A was when they got bent a little in
High speed Dogfights pilots reported that the AC was a little faster.
(I do not know if this is a fact.)
 
Dan
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2003 12:43 PM
Subject: Re: What is "MiG Alley"?

Les,

First supersonic flight varies, with at least one P-47 pilot claiming he went supersonic in a dogfight in 1945.

Big problem was that the aircraft COULD go supersonic in a shallow dive but there was a loss of control with the early F-86 (the A used elevators, but the E added a flying tail; that was the result of the X-1 experiments and recommendation from Chuck Yeager).

The MiG-15 would literally disintegrate if it went supersonic, and both the MiG-15 and MiG-15bis had a sensor to pop the airbrakes when it got too close to its limits.

Remember "everything" in the early 1950s had to be faster and better, like the tail fins on a '59 Chevy!

Cookie