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Re: Truman and the Marines: TRUMAN refered to something that caused strong dislike or annoyance.



If Truman did say he felt a contempt, disdain, or strong distaste for the US Marines--especially during the first six months of the Korean War--then, in my opinion, he is at least "out of touch" with the world my two brothers fought in Korea while in the Marine Corps.  I still feel that people must define their terms when discussing anything but they must certainly define their terms when an American President's largely "good offices" and reputation has brought many saving contributions to the real defenders of democracy around the world: American troops of all branches.  However, I simply can't get away from the definition of HATE or HATEFUL as applied to his underlying motivation for denigrating and defaming the US Marine Corps and saying "they had a propaganda machine as bad as Stalin's."  That latter remark, abridged in the re-telling as it may be, certainly calls for an explanation.  So I again went back to the Oxford Dictionary and a History of HST, and looked up all aspects of HATE and/or HATEFUL that applied to his Presidency and personal life.  Of course, I had to be brief, and maybe at a later date I will gone into this aspect more deeply.  But suffice it to say that the proper synonyms for these two words are best supplied by dictionaries and not legal or historical documents.  The most common replacements for HATE and HATEFUL are: ABHORRENT, ACRIMONIOUS, ANGRY, BALEFUL, BEASTLY, BITTER, DESPISED, DETESTABLE, EMBITTERED, RANKLED, and VEXED
 
I feel Truman displayed an immense tendency to carry a bagful of these words--five as I remember him (see BOLD above) from the 50's and read old references to him on  today's Internet--and what they imply:  Recall that while walking down the street with his Secret Service contingent during his last term as President (early one morning in Washington) he was asked by fast-stepping newspaper reporters, "What do you think of Martin Luther King winning the Noble Prize?"  Without missing a step Truman replied tartly, "Not much."  Other back and forth words and questions were exchanged and the "sidewalk interview" made world headlines!  I agree that response and his other clearly contemptuous replies--directed plainly against MLK--do no indicate a HATEFUL nature but they do indicate a blunt intense dislike for MLK, to my way of thinking.  And I say that's his business.  He knows he's going "down in history," and that some day people will read about him and draw different conclusions, but let me be frank when I say I don't think he gave a damn what any of us thought about him since underneath all, his most secret urges and needs did not hold one evil burning fire of uncontrollable greed or excessive or rapacious desire, esp. for wealth or possessions, not one instance of excessively or inordinately fiery desire for wealth and profit.  
 
The man was too plain and direct for this and he was very proud of that side of his character!  This means he can only have been so shortsighted and fed up with the daily struggle to keep America ahead of the thousands of cynical and greedy people hitting on him hourly with money-making schemes that he allowed his mid-western "plain talk" to run bluntly at certain moments.  Though he was a Captain in the field artillery in World War, I read that he was an honest and forthright officer who exhibited unusual courage.  So though I may dislike applying the word "hateful" to Harry Truman I must accept the definition of HATEFUL as sometimes applying directly to some of his words and deeds.  However, one caveat is necessary: "a man's character is the sum total of all his thoughts, words, deeds, and actions, and has little to do with isolated flaws uncovered randomly in rare or infrequent fashion."   I admit that just one "bad misjudgment" can virtually ruin a person's career and that it is unfair to judge him only on that one miscalculation that leads to one or more over- or under-estimations of a person's problem, opponent, or enemy.

Here is my last attempt to describe the meaning of Hate:

   Hate (Hate) (?), v. t.
1. To have a great aversion to, with a strong desire that evil should befall the person toward whom the feeling is directed; to dislike intensely; to detest; as, to hate one's enemies; to hate hypocrisy. "Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer." 1 John iii. 15.
2. To be very unwilling; followed by an infinitive, or a substantive clause with that; as, to hate to get into debt; to hate that anything should be wasted. "I hate that he should linger here." Tennyson.
3. (Script.) To love less, relatively. Luke xiv. 26.
 
Synonyms -- To Hate, Abhor, Detest, Abominate, Loathe. Hate is the generic word, and implies that one is inflamed with extreme dislike. We abhor what is deeply repugnant to our sensibilities or feelings. We detest what contradicts so utterly our principles and moral sentiments that we feel bound to lift up our voice against it. What we abominate does equal violence to our moral and religious sentiments. What we loathe is offensive to our own nature, and excites unmingled disgust.
 
Blake Mooney
rbmooney@bellosuth.net
(above quoted from many sources: Oxford Dictionary, History of Harry S. Truman, etc.)

  
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gernilee Carter" <gernilee@msn.com>
To: <KOREAN-WAR-L@listproc.cc.ku.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 4:49 PM
Subject: Re: Truman and the Marines: TRUMAN refered to something that caused strong dislike or annoyance.

> Regarding this statement:
> But even we kids knew it was done to protect cronies and pals to get into
> new businesses with a wide open door and all the loans they wanted.  It was
> in all the newspapers, and our parents thought Truman was insane.
>   Am I naive??  I really find it difficult to believe that the President
> would do that... destroy equipment to feather the beds of his friends.  It
> sure goes against everything I've ever heard about Truman too.  I have a new
> viewpoint of him now, of course, since being on this discussion list.  And
> that view point is less than good, however to so blatantly, almost like the
> dictators, unilaterally destroy military equipment, and the public knew
> about it makes no sense in the terms you attribute.
>    Yes, there seems to be a deeper mystery.  But maybe it is just spite...
> Think about it.  Think about his behavior, his words, his attitudes.  It is
> not beyond imagination to see him so spiteful.
>      Gernilee
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "rbmooney" <
rbmooney@bellsouth.net>
> Reply-To:
KOREAN-WAR-L@listproc.cc.ku.edu
> To: <KOREAN-WAR-L@listproc.cc.ku.edu>
> Subject: Re: Truman and the Marines: TRUMAN refered to something that caused
> strong dislike or annoyance.
> Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 15:36:59 -0500
>
> HATEFUL:
> hate·ful (h!tÆfÃl), adj.
>
> 1. arousing hate or deserving to be hated: the hateful oppression of
> dictators.
>
> 2. unpleasant; dislikable; distasteful: She found her domestic chores
> hateful.
>
> 3. full of or expressing hate; malignant; malevolent: a hateful denunciatory
> speech.
>
> [1300-50; ME; see HATE, -FUL]
>
> -hateÆful·ly, adv.
>
> -hateÆful·ness, n.
>
> -Syn. 1. abominable, execrable, abhorrent, repugnant; invidious, loathsome.
> HATEFUL, OBNOXIOUS, ODIOUS, OFFENSIVE refer to something that causes strong
> dislike or annoyance. HATEFUL implies actually causing hatred or extremely
> strong dislike: The sight of him is hateful to me. OBNOXIOUS emphasizes
> causing annoyance or discomfort by objectionable qualities: His persistence
> made him seem obnoxious. His piggish manners made him obnoxious to his
> companions. ODIOUS emphasizes the disagreeable or displeasing: an odious
> little man; odious servility. OFFENSIVE emphasizes the distaste and
> resentment caused by something that may be either displeasing or insulting:
> an offensive odor, remark.
>
> -Ant. 1. likable, agreeable; commendable, praiseworthy.
>
> Truman's action of dumping most "left-over" military equipment--billions of
> dollars worth, to be sure!--into the oceans around the world right after the
> 2nd WW could alone be easily seen as a HATEFUL decision as even children I
> was in the 7th grade of grade school with thought "how stupid can you be!"
> when they saw such terrible waste.  But even we kids knew it was done to
> protect cronies and pals to get into new businesses with a wide open door
> and all the loans they wanted.  It was in all the newspapers, and our
> parents thought Truman was insane.  As far as I'm concerned, Truman damn
> near "cultivated all our hangmen" by destroying so impulsively and stupidly
> the vast war material America had beaten the worst world-wide historical
> tyrants with.  Of course, no KW veteran will ever forget the effort of all
> our military people!  I only hope all the young people coming up re-read the
> history of the Korean "Police Action."  They can judge Truman's good and bad
> points from a different perspective but those points will always exist.
>
> Blake Mooney
>
rbmooney@bellsouth.net
>
>
>
>    ----- Original Message -----
>    From: M. Katz
>    To:
KOREAN-WAR-L@listproc.cc.ku.edu
>    Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 2:03 PM
>    Subject: Truman and the Marines
>
>
>    In a private letter distributed publicly by the recipient, a congressman,
> Truman accused the Marines of running a "propaganda machine almost as good
> as Stalin's," a remark for which he had to publicly grovel in apology.  And
> there were suggestions at the time, an era of drastic military cost-cutting,
> that the Marines were redundant and should be cut.
>        But what are the "hateful" remarks you are referring to?
>    --Mandy Katz
>
>    Love Shack wrote:
>
>      There is more to more to Trumans distaste of the Marine then is being
> told.
>      When financial resources were low for military budgets there was a lot
> of harsh
>      words going on.  Especially the arbitrage and asset stripping that was
> going on with
>      the large companies. It ws brutal and political. Very few survived
> today intact.
>      Such as GM, Hughes, Ford, Boeing, IBM...and a few others.
>
>      During his tenure the DoD, CIA and USAF were established.
>      All were new Government Departments.
>      (BTW are there any others I missed that were started).
>
>      I am interested in the intent of Truman ire toward the Marines.
>      Hate is not a reason. Something drove the decision
>      as there were many who were trying to disolve the Marines.
>
>      Not to mention the ire of those who tried to prevent the USAF from
> forming.
>
>      Dan Fahey
>
>
>
>        ----- Original Message -----
>        From: robert guertin
>        To:
KOREAN-WAR-L@listproc.cc.ku.edu
>        Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 2:34 PM
>        Subject: Re: Kunsan and Inchon landings, Sept 12 & 15, 1950
>
>
>        Don;
>        I remember those remarks.....Truman always denigrated the Corps, and
> hated Army West Pointers almost as much, since he had failed to get into the
> Point. As a Marine in the First Battalion, we sent a letter requesting
> Police Badges and whistles since Truman insisted on calling Korea a Police
> Action.
>        Thank you for your service.
>       
DGill11331@aol.com wrote:
>
>          In a message dated 9/8/2003 10:32:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>
wanaki@infionline.net writes:
>
>            The Inchon Landing secured the future of the Marine Corps, which
> had been
>            considered no longer viable and facing disbanding and integration
> into the
>            other branches. As a consequence of the landing and the battle at
> Chosin
>            Reservoir, a public law was passed by both houses, declaring that
> this Nation
>            would always maintain a Marine Corps of three divisions and
> attached Air Wings.
>            Ed Evanhoe wrote:
>
>            >We're coming up on the 53rd anniversary of landing at Kunsan and
> the Inchon
>            >landing.  Anyone have any thoughts of these events?
>            >
>            >Ed
>
>
>          Korea had two forgotten wars. The main one was the war itself the
> second was a war that Truman leveled against the Marine Corps in the early
> part of the war. Many people forget or just don' t know that the 5th Marine
> Brigade was already engaged at the Pusan Perimeter, the 1st Marine Regiment
> was in the middle of the Pacific Ocean on its way to the Inchon Landing and
> the 7th Marine Regiment was on it way from Europe and other places to join
> the 5th and 1st Marines in Korea when President Truman unleashed a brutal
> verbal assault against the integrity of the Marine Corps.
>                 My company was part of the 1st Marine Regiment on a ship (US
> Noble APA-218) on the high seas on the way to Inchon when Truman made his
> nasty verbal assault against the Marine Corps. I heard Truman's remarks
> first hand because the ship piped all the news from the States over its PA
> system. To the Marines who heard Truman's remarks -- his words had more of a
> detrimental effect on their moral than almost anything we faced in Korea.
> Once a Truman fan after hearing his remarks I never was a fan of his again.
>          Don Gill
>
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