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Those misleading emotions are yours.
The facts differ so much compared to the Feeling of
your opinion.
There are reasons Truman felt the way he
did.
By making bold broad based comments as fact
squashes the reality.
Especially without adding the background of how any
person would
come to feeling a
particular way about a set of events.
Dan Fahey
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 8:16
PM
Subject: Re: Truman and the Marines:
TRUMAN refered to something that caused strong dislike or annoyance.
If Truman did say he felt a contempt, disdain, or strong
distaste for the US Marines--especially during the first six months of the
Korean War--then, in my opinion, he is at least "out of touch" with the world
my two brothers fought in Korea while in the Marine Corps. I still
feel that people must define their terms when discussing anything but they
must certainly define their terms when an American President's largely "good
offices" and reputation has brought many saving contributions to the real
defenders of democracy around the world: American troops of all
branches. However, I simply can't get away from the definition of HATE
or HATEFUL as applied to his underlying motivation for denigrating and
defaming the US Marine Corps and saying "they had a propaganda machine as
bad as Stalin's." That latter remark, abridged in the re-telling as
it may be, certainly calls for an explanation. So I again went back to
the Oxford Dictionary and a History of HST, and looked up all aspects of HATE
and/or HATEFUL that applied to his Presidency and personal life. Of
course, I had to be brief, and maybe at a later date I will gone into this
aspect more deeply. But suffice it to say that the proper synonyms for these two words are best supplied by
dictionaries and not legal or historical documents. The most common
replacements for HATE and HATEFUL are: ABHORRENT,
ACRIMONIOUS, ANGRY, BALEFUL, BEASTLY,
BITTER, DESPISED, DETESTABLE, EMBITTERED,
RANKLED, and VEXED.
I feel Truman displayed an immense tendency to
carry a bagful of these words--five as I remember him (see
BOLD above) from the 50's and read old references to him
on today's Internet--and what they imply: Recall that while
walking down the street with his Secret Service contingent during his
last term as President (early one morning in Washington) he was asked by
fast-stepping newspaper reporters, "What do you think of Martin Luther King
winning the Noble Prize?" Without missing a step Truman replied tartly,
"Not much." Other back and forth words and questions were exchanged and
the "sidewalk interview" made world headlines! I agree that
response and his other clearly contemptuous replies--directed plainly against
MLK--do no indicate a HATEFUL nature but they do indicate a blunt intense
dislike for MLK, to my way of thinking. And I say that's his
business. He knows he's going "down in history," and that some day
people will read about him and draw different conclusions, but let me be frank
when I say I don't think he gave a damn what any of us thought about him since
underneath all, his most secret urges and needs did not
hold one evil burning fire of uncontrollable greed or
excessive or rapacious desire, esp. for wealth or possessions, not one
instance of excessively or inordinately fiery desire for wealth and
profit.
The man was too plain and direct for this and he was
very proud of that side of his character! This means he can only have
been so shortsighted and fed up with the daily struggle to keep America ahead
of the thousands of cynical and greedy people hitting on him hourly with
money-making schemes that he allowed his mid-western "plain talk" to run
bluntly at certain moments. Though he was a Captain in the field
artillery in World War, I read that he was an honest and forthright officer
who exhibited unusual courage. So though I may dislike applying the word
"hateful" to Harry Truman I must accept the definition of HATEFUL as sometimes
applying directly to some of his words and deeds. However, one caveat is
necessary: "a man's character is the sum total of all his thoughts,
words, deeds, and actions, and has little to do with isolated flaws
uncovered randomly in rare or infrequent fashion." I admit
that just one "bad misjudgment" can virtually ruin a person's career and that
it is unfair to judge him only on that one miscalculation that leads to one or
more over- or under-estimations of a person's problem, opponent, or
enemy.
Here is my last attempt to describe the
meaning of Hate:
Hate (Hate) (?), v. t.
1. To have a great aversion to, with a strong desire
that evil should befall the person toward whom the feeling is directed; to
dislike intensely; to detest; as, to hate one's enemies; to hate hypocrisy.
"Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer." 1 John iii. 15.
2. To be very
unwilling; followed by an infinitive, or a substantive clause with that; as,
to hate to get into debt; to hate that anything should be wasted. "I hate that
he should linger here." Tennyson.
3. (Script.) To love less, relatively.
Luke xiv. 26.
Synonyms -- To Hate, Abhor, Detest, Abominate,
Loathe. Hate is the generic word, and implies that one is inflamed with
extreme dislike. We abhor what is deeply
repugnant to our sensibilities or feelings. We detest what contradicts so
utterly our principles and moral sentiments that we feel bound to lift up our
voice against it. What we abominate does equal violence to our moral and
religious sentiments. What we loathe is offensive to our own nature, and
excites unmingled disgust.
Blake Mooney
(above quoted from many sources: Oxford Dictionary,
History of Harry S. Truman, etc.)
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 4:49 PM
Subject: Re: Truman and the Marines: TRUMAN refered to
something that caused strong dislike or annoyance.
> Regarding this
statement:
> But even we kids knew it was done to protect cronies and
pals to get into
> new businesses with a wide open door and all the
loans they wanted. It was
> in all the newspapers, and our
parents thought Truman was insane.
> Am I naive?? I really
find it difficult to believe that the President
> would do that...
destroy equipment to feather the beds of his friends. It
> sure
goes against everything I've ever heard about Truman too. I have a new
> viewpoint of him now, of course, since being on this discussion
list. And
> that view point is less than good, however to so
blatantly, almost like the
> dictators, unilaterally destroy military
equipment, and the public knew
> about it makes no sense in the terms
you attribute.
> Yes, there seems to be a deeper
mystery. But maybe it is just spite...
> Think about it.
Think about his behavior, his words, his attitudes. It is
> not
beyond imagination to see him so spiteful.
>
Gernilee
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From:
"rbmooney" <rbmooney@bellsouth.net>
>
Reply-To: KOREAN-WAR-L@listproc.cc.ku.edu
>
To: <KOREAN-WAR-L@listproc.cc.ku.edu>
> Subject: Re: Truman and the Marines: TRUMAN refered to
something that caused
> strong dislike or annoyance.
> Date: Tue,
9 Sep 2003 15:36:59 -0500
>
> HATEFUL:
> hate·ful
(h!tÆfÃl), adj.
>
> 1. arousing hate or deserving to be hated:
the hateful oppression of
> dictators.
>
> 2. unpleasant;
dislikable; distasteful: She found her domestic chores
>
hateful.
>
> 3. full of or expressing hate; malignant;
malevolent: a hateful denunciatory
> speech.
>
> [1300-50;
ME; see HATE, -FUL]
>
> -hateÆful·ly, adv.
>
>
-hateÆful·ness, n.
>
> -Syn. 1. abominable, execrable, abhorrent,
repugnant; invidious, loathsome.
> HATEFUL, OBNOXIOUS, ODIOUS,
OFFENSIVE refer to something that causes strong
> dislike or annoyance.
HATEFUL implies actually causing hatred or extremely
> strong dislike:
The sight of him is hateful to me. OBNOXIOUS emphasizes
> causing
annoyance or discomfort by objectionable qualities: His persistence
>
made him seem obnoxious. His piggish manners made him obnoxious to his
> companions. ODIOUS emphasizes the disagreeable or displeasing: an
odious
> little man; odious servility. OFFENSIVE emphasizes the
distaste and
> resentment caused by something that may be either
displeasing or insulting:
> an offensive odor, remark.
>
>
-Ant. 1. likable, agreeable; commendable, praiseworthy.
>
>
Truman's action of dumping most "left-over" military equipment--billions of
> dollars worth, to be sure!--into the oceans around the world right
after the
> 2nd WW could alone be easily seen as a HATEFUL decision as
even children I
> was in the 7th grade of grade school with thought
"how stupid can you be!"
> when they saw such terrible waste. But
even we kids knew it was done to
> protect cronies and pals to get into
new businesses with a wide open door
> and all the loans they
wanted. It was in all the newspapers, and our
> parents thought
Truman was insane. As far as I'm concerned, Truman damn
> near
"cultivated all our hangmen" by destroying so impulsively and stupidly
> the vast war material America had beaten the worst world-wide
historical
> tyrants with. Of course, no KW veteran will ever
forget the effort of all
> our military people! I only hope all
the young people coming up re-read the
> history of the Korean "Police
Action." They can judge Truman's good and bad
> points from a
different perspective but those points will always exist.
>
>
Blake Mooney
> rbmooney@bellsouth.net
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
From: M. Katz
> To: KOREAN-WAR-L@listproc.cc.ku.edu
>
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 2:03 PM
>
Subject: Truman and the Marines
>
>
> In a
private letter distributed publicly by the recipient, a congressman,
>
Truman accused the Marines of running a "propaganda machine almost as good
> as Stalin's," a remark for which he had to publicly grovel in
apology. And
> there were suggestions at the time, an era of
drastic military cost-cutting,
> that the Marines were redundant and
should be cut.
> But what are the
"hateful" remarks you are referring to?
> --Mandy
Katz
>
> Love Shack wrote:
>
>
There is more to more to Trumans distaste of the
Marine then is being
> told.
> When
financial resources were low for military budgets there was a lot
> of
harsh
> words going on. Especially the
arbitrage and asset stripping that was
> going on with
>
the large companies. It ws brutal and political. Very
few survived
> today intact.
> Such as
GM, Hughes, Ford, Boeing, IBM...and a few others.
>
>
During his tenure the DoD, CIA and USAF were
established.
> All were new Government
Departments.
> (BTW are there any others I
missed that were started).
>
> I am
interested in the intent of Truman ire toward the Marines.
>
Hate is not a reason. Something drove the
decision
> as there were many who were trying
to disolve the Marines.
>
> Not to
mention the ire of those who tried to prevent the USAF from
>
forming.
>
> Dan Fahey
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message
-----
> From: robert
guertin
> To: KOREAN-WAR-L@listproc.cc.ku.edu
>
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 2:34
PM
> Subject: Re: Kunsan and Inchon
landings, Sept 12 & 15, 1950
>
>
>
Don;
>
I remember those remarks.....Truman
always denigrated the Corps, and
> hated Army West Pointers almost as
much, since he had failed to get into the
> Point. As a Marine in the
First Battalion, we sent a letter requesting
> Police Badges and
whistles since Truman insisted on calling Korea a Police
>
Action.
> Thank you for your
service.
> DGill11331@aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated
9/8/2003 10:32:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> wanaki@infionline.net writes:
>
> The
Inchon Landing secured the future of the Marine Corps, which
> had
been
>
considered no longer viable and facing disbanding and integration
>
into the
>
other branches. As a consequence of the landing and the battle at
>
Chosin
>
Reservoir, a public law was passed by both houses, declaring that
>
this Nation
>
would always
maintain a Marine Corps of three divisions and
> attached Air
Wings.
> Ed
Evanhoe wrote:
>
>
>We're coming
up on the 53rd anniversary of landing at Kunsan and
> the
Inchon
>
>landing. Anyone have any thoughts of these events?
>
>
>
>Ed
>
>
> Korea had
two forgotten wars. The main one was the war itself the
> second was a
war that Truman leveled against the Marine Corps in the early
> part of
the war. Many people forget or just don' t know that the 5th Marine
>
Brigade was already engaged at the Pusan Perimeter, the 1st Marine Regiment
> was in the middle of the Pacific Ocean on its way to the Inchon
Landing and
> the 7th Marine Regiment was on it way from Europe and
other places to join
> the 5th and 1st Marines in Korea when President
Truman unleashed a brutal
> verbal assault against the integrity of the
Marine Corps.
>
My company was part of the 1st Marine Regiment on a ship (US
> Noble
APA-218) on the high seas on the way to Inchon when Truman made his
>
nasty verbal assault against the Marine Corps. I heard Truman's remarks
> first hand because the ship piped all the news from the States over
its PA
> system. To the Marines who heard Truman's remarks -- his words
had more of a
> detrimental effect on their moral than almost anything
we faced in Korea.
> Once a Truman fan after hearing his remarks I
never was a fan of his again.
>
Don Gill
>
>
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