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Re: Truman and the Marines



Dan,
As I previously stated, I gave you the facts concerning Truman and the Marines, and, incidentally, I also have been the President of a corporation, but never considered myself intractable in my beliefs. And having now been retired for 12 years realize I will never know the full story regarding any matter .
Robert

Love Shack wrote:

 Robert:My information comes from being a President of a Computer Corporation and having to maketough and critical decisions nobody in my organization can understand.My experience is that the initial story without critical understanding of theunderlying issues means nothing until they are evaluated. Feeling comments such as he Hated or disliked or Liked something does not explainhow the decision was made or what was the experience of the person. Anyone bringing that upcomment is presenting a Strawman to protect unresolved feelings and stop factual information. What Mr. Ben Frank has presented is exactly what I seek in decision making.The FEELING and Prejudice aspect walks when the facts and issues areput squarely on the table. Mr. Truman's experiences against a corrupt industry was what Roosevelt has to deal withafter the Stock Market crash. Too many large companies greed assuring profits are PROTECTEDkilled the overall strength of our country.  Hense the SEC. Truman breaking up the US Army, adding a CIA, USAF, segrating the Military and addinga government agency the DoD to REGULATE fair business practices was a shock for those that didnot want to progress in a moving fair business and social environments. For examole, the commercial side there was a delibrate shakedown of the auto industry where the big 4wanted to pair down all the companies to lock up business. Tucker being and advanced case where large business did not want to engage in new quality manufacturing methods. Tucker was a threat. Then to the surprise of the American companies the Japanese and Gernam cars were winning the market sharewith better cars, service and reliability. Corporation are not interested in advances in technology, just the profits and this stagnation in the 50's wasprevalent until the Kennedy administrations Tax Cut/Reinvestment program and focus going to the Moon. Trumans decisions were the correct decisions at the time and for the political environment that existed.The fact that Truman had the courage to appologize that he made a mistake and presented it in a humbled and dignified way also added credibility and hard earned pride of the US Marines.  The key issue was that he may not have liked adding the Marines but he recognized the Respect they earned and finally got. My Uncle joined the Marines in 1954 so I have an additional POV. Every Marine has a certain elan about them that is unique. It is quiet but there in your face that says RESPECT. No matter what anyone explains as the reason something what is done, it is the INTENT that needs evaluating.INTENT is the truth.  After the INTENT comes Meaning and Purpose. No matter what you do in life it comes from INTENT. Truman's intent was a man who wanted to make the best decisions for our country as he saw them. To me they were honest and without pretense. He worked damn hard and the impression to most Americans was that Mr. Trumans was a good person that did good things for the country. You can raise all the facts you want. I will look at the underlying Intent. Because that's  what counts. Dan Fahey   When Truman decided the Marines offered value Truman had the critical decision skills to maintain the organization.     
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: Truman and the Marines
 I provided the facts.....if you choose to ignore them and ascribe a prejudice to them that's on you. The record is clear.
Robert

Love Shack wrote:

 Robert:I am getting a cmuch clearer history from Ben Frank.He has provided the underlying reasons and nota description of a prejudice without facts. Resentment and competition happen all the time,but when you treat a Division or any crew withoutshowing appreciation there it is going to causeserious resentment and disgruntled behavior. Please review with Ben, because this is interesting! Dan
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 11:57 PM
Subject: Re: Truman and the Marines
 Dan,
You are referring to my comment.
Truman was an Arty. Battery Commander with the rank of Captain during the 1st World War. Marines won laurels and decorations for their performance at Chateau Thierry and Bellau Woods, And Genl. LeJune, a Marine,  Commanded the 2nd US Army. The designation, "Devil Dogs", (Teffel Hunden) [sp] was a term the Germans used to define the Marines, and it is still assumed with pride by the young Marines of today.
The French were lavish in their praise of the Marines, awarding the Fuer De Guerre [sp] to the 5th and 6th Marine Regiment, the units involved in those two critical battles.
This caused tremendous jealousy amongst some Army men, and Truman was one of those who carried his resentment through the intervening years, viewing the Marines as nothing more than "the Navy's police force".
To add to his resentment, during that intervening period, Marines were always the first Military Unit in National Parades, primarily because they were the Nations only First Reaction Force.
Earlier in his younger days, Truman failed the entry exams for West Point, and later in serving under such Graduates, he found them not at all anymore qualified than he was, and felt they were working politically within the Officer Hierarchy..

Robert

Love Shack wrote:

 The comment was that Truman Hated the Marines and West Point.Knowing what was provoking his feelings is what Iam after.You do not like or dislike something for a whim. Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: M. Katz
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 3:03 PM
Subject: Truman and the Marines
 In a private letter distributed publicly by the recipient, a congressman, Truman accused the Marines of running a "propaganda machine almost as good as Stalin's," a remark for which he had to publicly grovel in apology.  And there were suggestions at the time, an era of drastic military cost-cutting, that the Marines were redundant and should be cut.
    But what are the "hateful" remarks you are referring to?
--Mandy Katz

Love Shack wrote:

There is more to more to Trumans distaste of the Marine then is being told.When financial resources were low for military budgets there was a lot of harshwords going on.  Especially the arbitrage and asset stripping that was going on withthe large companies. It ws brutal and political. Very few survived today intact.Such as GM, Hughes, Ford, Boeing, IBM...and a few others. During his tenure the DoD, CIA and USAF were established.All were new Government Departments.(BTW are there any others I missed that were started). I am interested in the intent of Truman ire toward the Marines.Hate is not a reason. Something drove the decisionas there were many who were trying to disolve the Marines. Not to mention the ire of those who tried to prevent the USAF from forming. Dan Fahey
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 2:34 PM
Subject: Re: Kunsan and Inchon landings, Sept 12 & 15, 1950
 Don;
I remember those remarks.....Truman always denigrated the Corps, and hated Army West Pointers almost as much, since he had failed to get into the Point. As a Marine in the First Battalion, we sent a letter requesting Police Badges and whistles since Truman insisted on calling Korea a Police Action.
Thank you for your service.

DGill11331@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 9/8/2003 10:32:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, wanaki@infionline.net writes:
 
The Inchon Landing secured the future of the Marine Corps, which had been
considered no longer viable and facing disbanding and integration into the
other branches. As a consequence of the landing and the battle at Chosin
Reservoir, a public law was passed by both houses, declaring that this Nation
would always maintain a Marine Corps of three divisions and attached Air Wings.

Ed Evanhoe wrote:

>We're coming up on the 53rd anniversary of landing at Kunsan and the Inchon
>landing.  Anyone have any thoughts of these events?
>
>Ed
 

Korea had two forgotten wars. The main one was the war itself the second was a war that Truman leveled against the Marine Corps in the early part of the war. Many people forget or just don' t know that the 5th Marine Brigade was already engaged at the Pusan Perimeter, the 1st Marine Regiment was in the middle of the Pacific Ocean on its way to the Inchon Landing and the 7th Marine Regiment was on it way from Europe and other places to join the 5th and 1st Marines in Korea when President Truman unleashed a brutal verbal assault against the integrity of the Marine Corps.
       My company was part of the 1st Marine Regiment on a ship (US Noble APA-218) on the high seas on the way to Inchon when Truman made his nasty verbal assault against the Marine Corps. I heard Truman's remarks first hand because the ship piped all the news from the States over its PA system. To the Marines who heard Truman's remarks -- his words had more of a detrimental effect on their moral than almost anything we faced in Korea. Once a Truman fan after hearing his remarks I never was a fan of his again.
Don Gill