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Re: revising air war kill tallies
Jose,
First thing that comes to mind is that your premise is not acceptable:
who are these 2 sources you refer to and how do they know such accurate US
Defense Dept. details; Chinese details; Soviet Union details?
Where is the evidence that anything is different from what the US Defense
Dept. says? You offer 2 names, but at Defense they offer
thousands. Rather "begging the question" to submit 2 names of "aces"
or researchers who offer nothing by way of US Defense Dept. statistics which
base their stats on the ultimate premise: "we maintain and hold the
official records." Prove those records wrong, or some aspect of them
wrong, and write that up. Woodward & Bernstein did it with Deep
Throat--a false alternative--in their book, but you'll need more than you have:
you're appealing to our ignorance. The conclusion you've reached is
interesting but wrong because the premise is an "assumed
premise." How would anyone accept it? What you've produced is,
I'm afraid, a non sequitur: a conclusion that does not follow from
the premises. Statements by "harold fisher" and "diego" are
interesting, in themselves, but hardly the foundation of any premise as
you've derived. We simply don't know what is completely true.
Layout--side by side--3 columns, and include the actual stats of kills sourced
from the leaders of the separate Defense Departments of China, Soviet Union, and
the United States and let us draw our own conclusions. As it stands your
premises are irrelevant to your conclusion. However, I hope you pursue the
subject further. It could be an historical contribution!.
Blake Mooney
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 9:46 AM
Subject: Re: revising air war kill tallies
> My opinion:
> It
seems the US system was fairly accurate.
> Jose:
> My suggestion,
identify the reasons each kill was over claimed.
> At the same time some
kills may have occcured and not counted.
>
> One of the issues was
that I suspect more Migs were
> shot down by Prop planes then recorded.
What were these?
>
> Mustang pilots dogfighting the Migs stated
they got excellent hits.
> Cookie states that there were no Mustang
claims,
> though one Corsair and 3 Fury pilots managed to knock a few
down.
>
> Dan Fahey
>
>
>
>
>
----- Original Message -----
> From: "jose castillo" <felizguajiro@yahoo.com>
> To:
<KOREAN-WAR-L@listproc.cc.ku.edu>
> Cc:
<dzampini@hotmail.com>
> Sent: Friday,
November 14, 2003 10:28 AM
> Subject: revising air war kill
tallies
>
>
> > hello to the group, this is my first
message here.
> > korean war jet ace harold fisher once said, "it
is
> > interesting to compare our claims of victory with the
>
> numbers from the other side. we found many aerial
> > victories
that needed recounting." in this spirit, i
> > am trying to come up
with more accurate kill tallies
> > for US korean war aces, based on
the best data
> > currently available. my friend diego from argentina,
a
> > contributor here, has provided the information. what
> >
we have is a provisional list of the top five american
> > aces, giving
them the benefit of the doubt for all
> > their chinese kills, but
modifying their soviet kills
> > to come up with a new total for each.
(the chinese
> > records, diego tells me, provide only monthly
kill
> > totals, not day-to-day, making systematic correlation
>
> with US records difficult.)
> >
> > *joe
mcconnell, 16 kills: 9 of his 16 claims were
> > actually against
soviet MiGs. 6 are fully admitted by
> > the russians and 3 were
overclaims. his score would be
> > 13.
> >
> >
*james jabara, 15 kills: he claimed 6 MiGs in his
> > first tour, but
only 4 actually happened. all his
> > kills in his 2nd tour were
against chinese, so his
> > tally would be 13.
> >
>
> *pete fernandez, 14.5 kills: 4 of his air battles were
> > against
soviets, and he scored in 3 of them. the march
> > 9, 1953 kill was an
overclaim, so pete's score is 13
> > 1/2.
> >
> >
*george davis, 14 kills: he was credited with 11 MiGs
> > and 3
tupolevs; he actually got 10 MiGs and 2
> > tupolevs. his score is
12
> >
> > *royal baker, 13 kills: 5 of his claims were
against
> > soviet planes, and 3 actually happened. his score
is
> > 11.
> >
> > NEW TALLIES:
> >
fernandez 13.5
> > mcconnell 13
> > jabara 13
> >
davis 12
> > baker 11
> >
> > what do folks think of
this? as for the chinese data,
> > any ideas for incorporating it into
my revisionist
> > history? thanks! jose c.
> >
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
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