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Re: Korea War List of Aces



Thanks Cookie
During WW2 over 20k most planes did not flame anyway.
When the F86F had 20mm did its kill ratio pick up?
 
In WW2 sims such as Warbirds and Air Warrior.
They demonstrated and modeled in the energy each round had.
The 50 cal did better then cannon because of higher muzzle velocity
and a longer range. 
 
Yet 6-50 cal aircraft needed a 2.5 sec focused burst to blow up another fighter,
more against a bomber.  Yet in the moving arena of combat flying 2 seconds was along time.
I suspect the F9F though slower could flick and hit the Mig shooting it down.
 
It is interesting the US and Brit prop aircraft that successfully shot downed Migs both had 20mm cannon.
In fact I believe there were 4 Mig 17 shot down by AD4 in Vietman, again with 20mm.
Where as the Mustang probably had as much opportunity to hit a passing Mig
got in a good hard burst yet the jet survived.
 
BTW, can you fire 20mm rounds in the N23mm cannon?
 
Dan
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 5:20 PM
Subject: Re: Korea War List of Aces

In modern dogfights starting in WW II the easiest answer is cannon win dogfights. Early jet aircraft did not have much to go wrong, as they were essentialy WW II engineering solutions made of steel and aluminum with little to break if hit.
 
Ergo, a .50 caliber round striking one side and hitting nothing on its way through only leaves a .50 caliber hole on each side. Same with .303 -- which is why the Brits changed over to 20mm in the middle of WW II.
 
On the other hand, a 20mm round would blow a large chunk of airplane -- around a square foot -- off with one strike, plus damage or destroy what was behind it. A 23mm was similar and the 37mm round could devastate an aluminum structure with only one or two hits. Soviet estimates were 10-14 20mm or 23mm rounds to knock down a fighter, but only 1-2 37mm ones.
 
The F9F had four concentrated 20mm guns and could knock down a MiG with a short  burst due to the explosive nature of the ammunition. Ditto the Yak-9T which carried an average armament of one 12.7mm machine gun and one 23mm cannon. The cannon was the killer.
 
Gabby Gabreski had a long section in one of his autobiographical comments about how the .50 caliber did not have the knockdown power to get a MiG, as even tracers would not start a fire at 40,000 feet against one.
 
Cookie Sewell
AMPS