Re: Another Korean - Shootdown databases

[Joe Brennan <jbren1@optonline.net>]

Although Diego and Saso were courteous to include me as co-author on that
list, they didn't listen to many of my suggestions, and actually we didn't
even get into the later periods of the war, mostly we debated 1950-51.

I think those lists have a lot of errors, although they are interesting and
have some useful info. However without my notes in front of me I couldn't
always say exactly which entries, so likewise someone casually interested in
the topic couldn't tell either.

The basic problem is Diego (mainly) insists on recording as MiG victories US
aircraft lost to causes other than MiG's the same day according to US
records, and not to note anywhere on the list (or in his writings usually)
that that is what he's doing, to distinguish those cases in any way to the
casual reader from a/c that *were* lost to MiG's according to US records.
Plus there's the problem of arbitrarily (it seems to me) crediting actual US
MiG losses to a particular Russian pilot or pilots where many other Russian
pilots, or Chinese or NK pilots whose claims we may not fully know, also
claimed US planes downed the same day.  Plus some stuff is just wrong, for
example there are some wholly imaginary US losses too (eg. May 21, 1951
49-1318 flown by James Jabara damaged and written off: he flew -1319 and
neither plane was hit that day). And other things just left out compared to
all available sources. All in all interesting but not a reliable reference,
IMO.

On the F-51 comments of course the weapons were .50cal not 20mm. The loss of
2 Yak-9's by the KPAFAC in air combat Nov 1 happens to be confirmed in
Soviet documents, but few other US claims of KPAFAC downings in the war can
be confirmed for lack of their records (except a few others that came to
earth behind UN lines, Yak-9's in first days of the war and some Po-2's
later).

The Nov 7 MiG claim by F-51 was never officially credited, (actually no F-51
was ever officially credited with a MiG). Members of the Mustang unit have
been quoted complaining about this particular non-credit in articles by
sympathetic authors over the years, OTOH it doesn't appear the Russians lost
a MiG that day. Tanner might have a hit a MiG reported damaged in a combat
with "F-84's" at about the same time. No F-84's were in Korea then and no
F-80 units reported contact with MiG's that day. If one can believe that bad
a mis-id, I tend to actually.

Joe
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Love Shack" <Home@DanSources.com>
To: <KOREAN-WAR-L@listproc.cc.ku.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 3:44 PM
Subject: Another Korean - Shootdown databases


> http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_311.shtml
>
> from our own Joe Brennan
> Chinese Air-to-Air Victories during the Korean War, 1950-1953
> By ACIG Korean War Team, including Diego Fernando Zampini, Saso Knez, Joe
L.
> Brennan
> Oct 28, 2003, 19:02
>