Re: Another Korean - Shootdown databases

["Love Shack" <Home@DanSources.com>]

Hi Joe..
I suspected from dealing with Diego that his interpretations are generous.

What is interesting..
All the Prop Mig Kills confirmed were using 20mm Cannon.
I would think the Mustang used the same round as the jets did.
The Mustang pilots seem adament that they did down a Mig.
It is possible they nailed one that made it home.

Also from a few pilots they seem to feel they knocked
down a few more props then what was credited.

The F84 and F80 were much luckier
to hit a Mig hard and long enough to kill them.
They had enough speed to stay on the targets.

Dan

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joe Brennan" <jbren1@optonline.net>
To: <KOREAN-WAR-L@listproc.cc.ku.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 2:44 PM
Subject: Re: Another Korean - Shootdown databases


> Although Diego and Saso were courteous to include me as co-author on that
> list, they didn't listen to many of my suggestions, and actually we didn't
> even get into the later periods of the war, mostly we debated 1950-51.
>
> I think those lists have a lot of errors, although they are interesting
and
> have some useful info. However without my notes in front of me I couldn't
> always say exactly which entries, so likewise someone casually interested
in
> the topic couldn't tell either.
>
> The basic problem is Diego (mainly) insists on recording as MiG victories
US
> aircraft lost to causes other than MiG's the same day according to US
> records, and not to note anywhere on the list (or in his writings usually)
> that that is what he's doing, to distinguish those cases in any way to the
> casual reader from a/c that *were* lost to MiG's according to US records.
> Plus there's the problem of arbitrarily (it seems to me) crediting actual
US
> MiG losses to a particular Russian pilot or pilots where many other
Russian
> pilots, or Chinese or NK pilots whose claims we may not fully know, also
> claimed US planes downed the same day.  Plus some stuff is just wrong, for
> example there are some wholly imaginary US losses too (eg. May 21, 1951
> 49-1318 flown by James Jabara damaged and written off: he flew -1319 and
> neither plane was hit that day). And other things just left out compared
to
> all available sources. All in all interesting but not a reliable
reference,
> IMO.
>
> On the F-51 comments of course the weapons were .50cal not 20mm. The loss
of
> 2 Yak-9's by the KPAFAC in air combat Nov 1 happens to be confirmed in
> Soviet documents, but few other US claims of KPAFAC downings in the war
can
> be confirmed for lack of their records (except a few others that came to
> earth behind UN lines, Yak-9's in first days of the war and some Po-2's
> later).
>
> The Nov 7 MiG claim by F-51 was never officially credited, (actually no
F-51
> was ever officially credited with a MiG). Members of the Mustang unit have
> been quoted complaining about this particular non-credit in articles by
> sympathetic authors over the years, OTOH it doesn't appear the Russians
lost
> a MiG that day. Tanner might have a hit a MiG reported damaged in a combat
> with "F-84's" at about the same time. No F-84's were in Korea then and no
> F-80 units reported contact with MiG's that day. If one can believe that
bad
> a mis-id, I tend to actually.
>
> Joe
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Love Shack" <Home@DanSources.com>
> To: <KOREAN-WAR-L@listproc.cc.ku.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 3:44 PM
> Subject: Another Korean - Shootdown databases
>
>
> > http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_311.shtml
> >
> > from our own Joe Brennan
> > Chinese Air-to-Air Victories during the Korean War, 1950-1953
> > By ACIG Korean War Team, including Diego Fernando Zampini, Saso Knez,
Joe
> L.
> > Brennan
> > Oct 28, 2003, 19:02
> >
>