[KOREAN-WAR-L:11397] Re: Books

["Walter E. Wallis, P.E." <unclgene@pacbell.net>]

Tom, if you were there as you say, and others have said they were there and
they were not,  what do you suppose would have happened if, compassionately,
you had opened a gap in the line and allowed the civilian refugees to pass
through without vetting by the ROK security forces?

Walter E. Wallis

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom & Janet Hacha" <thacha@adelphia.net>
To: <KOREAN-WAR-L@listproc.cc.ku.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 7:31 PM
Subject: [KOREAN-WAR-L:11396] Re: Books


> Mr. Wallis continues to rant wildly about the book, "The Bridge At No Gun
Ri".
> Mr. Wallis says, "IF MY RANT IS WILD, IT IS BECAUSE THE WHOLE NGR  STORY
AS
> AIRED DEFAMES MEN WHO ARE BETTER THEN THEIR DEFAMERS."  If he were to read
the
> book, Mr. Wallis would find that the authors do not defame the enlisted
GI's in
> any way.  They site and meticulously document the command and leadership
> failures during that period, and rightly cite these failures as being
> responsible for what happened at No Gun Ri.  If Mr. Wallis would read the
U. S.
> Army NGR Review, he would find that the Army Inspector General Report
> acknowledges that a large number of civilian regugees died at No Gun Ri.
But it
> denies these command and leadership failures and absolves field commanders
of
> all responsiblity.  In doing so, the Army let the blame fall on the
enlisted
> GI's in the foxholes.  In short, it was a whitewash of the Army brass.
So, if
> Mr. Wallace wants to point his finger at the defamers, he should point his
> finger at the Pentagon.  However, I would caution him that in today's
political
> climate, in so doing, he risks being defamed himself.  Heaven forbid!
>
> As for Major Bateman's  book on NGR, it is a book that is clearly
dedicated to
> attacking the Associated Press 1999 article on NGR and the authors of The
Bridge
> at No Gun Ri.  The pursuit of the truth is not the object of this book.
Bateman
> totally dismisses the Korean survivors.  He never even talked to them.
Reading
> Bateman is somewhat analgalous to listening to Rush Limbaugh's monologue
to his
> right wing dittohead audience, telling them just what they want to hear.
>
> Mr. Wallace (in a previous posting), referring to teenage infantrymen
panicking,
> stated , "THEY DID THE BEST THEY COULD AGAINST THE FORCE AGAINST THEM, (no
> argument) AND THEY HELD UNTIL I GOT THERE TO TAKE OVER.  THERE WERE SOME
OTHERS
> WITH ME, OF COURSE."  (Hmm, sounds like Mr. Wallace took over the defense
of the
> Pusan Perimeter almost single handed with the help of a few others.)
>
> Mr. Wallace states (below), " I SUSPECT THAT MY KNOWLEDGE OF THE BOOK AND
THE
> SUBJECT ARE AN ORDER OF MAGNITUDE MORE THAN EITHER OF THE CO-AUTHORS OR
TOM AND
> JANET'S KNOWLEDGE OF LANDING IN A STRANGE COUNTRY AND RUSHING TO THE FRONT
TO
> STEM THE TIDE OF UNBRINDLED ( I think he meant unbridled) FEROCITY."
(Hmm,
> order of magnitude?  That's interesting since Mr. Wallace has not read any
of
> the three publications and he certainly does not know my knowledge of the
> subject.
>
> Based on what Mr. Wallace has stated (at least recently), any resonable
person
> would conclude that Mr. Wallace was a brave warrior and a courageous
leader of
> men.
>
> However, regarding No Gun Ri, let's set the record straight:
>     Mr. Wallis was not  at No Gun Ri.  I was.
>     Mr. Wallis did not see men, women, old and young and children, trying
to get
> to
>     safety,only to receive machine gun fire to drive them back.  I did.
>     Mr. Wallis did not see the machine gun tracers streaming into the
railroad
>     underpass.  I did.
>     Mr. Wallis did not hear the cries and screams of the refugees as they
died
> while
>     the tracers ricocheted through the tunnel under the railroad bridge.
Idid.
>
> Does Mr. Wallis have any idea what happened at No Gun Ri?  HE DOESN'T HAVE
A
> CLUE.
>
> Tom Hacha
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> "Walter E. Wallis, P.E." wrote:
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Tom & Janet Hacha" <thacha@adelphia.net>
> > To: <KOREAN-WAR-L@listproc.cc.ku.edu>
> > Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2004 3:11 PM
> > Subject: [KOREAN-WAR-L:11387] Re: Books
> >
> > > It seems obvious that Mr. Walter E. Wallis has not read "The Bridge At
No
> > Gun
> > > Ri" or Bateman's book on the same subject or the No Gun Ri Review
> > released by
> > > the Army Inspector General in January 2001.
> > > I suggest that Mr. Wallis do so before he continues to wildly rant
about
> > this
> > > subject.
> > > Tom Hacha
> >
> > I suspect that my knowledge of the book and the subject are an order of
> > magnitude more than either the coauthors or Tom and Janet's knowledge of
> > landing in a strange country and rushing to the front to stem a tide of
> > unbrindled ferocity. I am aware of the earlier discussion of No Gun Ri,
and
> > my statements are based on personal knowledge of the situation as it
existed
> > a week after No Gun Ri. If my rant is wild it is because the whole No
Gun Ri
> > story as aired defames men who are better than their defamers. I
declared my
> > passion - criticize if you can my assertions and observations. You
people
> > are kinda like the folk who, after the firemen save their house, bitch
about
> > the water damage. Feather Merchants - Blech!
> >
> > Walter E. Wallis
> > Inspire 28
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Walter E. Wallis, P.E." wrote:
> > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: <charlesjh@att.net>
> > > > To: <KOREAN-WAR-L@listproc.cc.ku.edu>
> > > > Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2004 8:37 AM
> > > > Subject: [KOREAN-WAR-L:11379] Books
> > > >
> > > > > An offering in response to Jeff McLaughlin's query about good
Korean
> > War
> > > > books:
> > > > >
> > > > > ``The Bridge at No Gun Ri,'' published by Henry Holt and Co., NY.
(For
> > > > excerpts, reviews and relevant, historically important documents,
see
> > the
> > > > websites http://www.henryholt.com/nogunri/index.htm and its link
> > > > http://www.henryholt.com/nogunri/documents.htm )
> > > > > Here's one brief review:
> > > > > ---
> > > > > The Providence Journal-Bulletin (Providence, RI)
> > > > > September 30, 2001
> > > > > BOOKS - HOW THINGS CAN GO VERY WRONG IN WARTIME
> > > > > BYLINE: LUTHER SPOEHR Special to the Journal
> > > > > HIGHLIGHT:
> > > > >    * THE BRIDGE AT NO GUN RI: A Hidden Nightmare from the * Korean
> > War,
> > > > > by Charles J. Hanley, Sang-Hun Choe, and Martha Mendoza. Henry
Holt.
> > 313
> > > > > pages. $26.
> > > > >
> > > > > BODY:
> > > > >    Based on the reporting that won its three authors, all of them
> > > > > Associated Press reporters, the 2000 Pulitzer Prize for
Investigative
> > > > > Reporting, The Bridge at No Gun Ri uses a familiar formula to tell
a
> > > > > powerful story about an unfamiliar war. It is also a timely
cautionary
> > > > > tale of what can happen when civilians are trapped between two
armies.
> > > > >
> > > > >    The formula, perfected by Stephen Ambrose and imitated by
countless
> > > > > others, involves following a small military unit as it comes
together,
> > > > > goes through the crucible of combat, and emerges wounded, changed,
and
> > > > > sobered, but generally triumphant at the end. Think Band of
Brothers
> > and
> > > > > The Wild Blue.
> > > > >
> > > > >      It's the history of ordinary Americans _ the grunts, not the
> > generals
> > > > _
> > > > > in extraordinary circumstances, and as applied to World War II,
''the
> > > > > good war,'' at its best it is vivid, moving, and ultimately
> > reassuring:
> > > > > ''we'' did the right thing.
> > > > >
> > > > >    Hanley, Choe, and Mendoza apply the formula to a horrific
incident
> > in
> > > > > a more ambiguous war, the Korean ''police action.'' They not only
> > follow
> > > > > an American unit into action, but also tell the story of the
Korean
> > > > > villagers whose lives were shattered by those soldiers.
> > > > >
> > > > >    The unit is the famous 7th Cavalry Regiment (Custer's outfit),
> > which,
> > > > > as the North Korean army threatened to overrun the entire Korean
> > > > > peninula in the summer of 1950, was hustled into action from its
cushy
> > > > > base in Japan. Like the rest of their division, they were
flagrantly
> > > > > unready, "raw teenagers led by too few sergeants in the ranks and
by
> > men
> > > > > past their prime at the top." Jittery, with nerves rubbed raw by
lurid
> > > > > rumors, lack of sleep, constant movement, and unexpected contacts
with
> > > > > the enemy, they were a disaster looking for a place to happen.
AND
> > YET
> > > > THEY HELD ENOUGH SPACE FOR US TO LAND - AT A PRICE THIS BOOK
DEMEANS.
> > > > >
> > > > >    They found that place near the village of No Gun Ri, where,
> > panicked
> > > > > by the possibility [AWARE OF THE CERTAINTY] that a column of
refugees
> > had
> > > > been infiltrated by
> > > > > North Korean troops and convinced that [ALLOWING INFILTRATERS TO
PASS
> > > > THROUGH WOULD GET THEM KILLED AND THE WAR LOST]  their orders
covered
> > their
> > > > > actions, the 7th Cav pinned down several hundred villagers beneath
a
> > > > > railroad trestle and for more than three days days replete with
> > > > > ''screaming children, ricochets in the concrete underpasses,
bodies
> > > > > piling up in the entrances'' shot and killed as many as 400
civilians,
> > > > > including many women and children.  PERHAPS THE CIVILIANS CHOULD
HAVE
> > GONE
> > > > AWAY FROM THE POSITION?
> > > > >
> > > > >    A half-century later, the effects of that massacre still shape
the
> > > > > lives of the survivors, Korean and American alike. When the Cold
War
> > > > > ended, villagers petitioning the American government for redress
got
> > the
> > > > > attention of the Associated Press. Reporters interviewed more than
500
> > > > > people and delved deeply into military records, including some
showing
> > > > > that high-ranking officers had authorized firing on civilians.
THIS
> > WAS
> > > > NEVER "NEWS" AND HARDLY A SECRET UNCOVERED BY BRILLIANT DETECTIVE
WORK.
> > > > >
> > > > >    Thanks to its careful documentation, The Bridge at No Gun Ri
surely
> > > > > refutes the 2001 Pentagon report that termed the incident ''an
> > > > > unfortunate tragedy inherent to war and not a deliberate
killing.''
> > > > >
> > > > >    But Hanley, Choe, and Mendoza, whose writing is measured,
clear,
> > > > > to-the-point, and remarkably rhetoric-free, do not demonize the
men
> > who
> > > > > pulled the triggers, whose tortured postwar lives give grim
meaning to
> > > > > the term ''post-traumatic stress disorder.'' If there are
villains,
> > they
> > > > > are higher in the chain of command.  OH, THEY DON'T DEMONIZE, THEY
> > SIMPLE
> > > > LABEL THEM AS STUPID AUTOMATONS INCAPABLE OF "ESTIMATING THE
SITUATION"
> > [THE
> > > > TRAINING PHRASE AT THAT TIME FOR MAINTINING BATTLEFIELD AWARENESS]
> > > > >
> > > > >    Because it graphically describes the violence of the encounter
at
> > the
> > > > > bridge and its agonizing aftermath, this is not an easy book to
read.
> > > > > But it is an important one, especially now, as we prepare to go to
war
> > > > > again. We need to think hard about how things can go wrong when
> > fighting
> > > > > for the right.  IT MIGHT ALSO BE HELPFUL TO EXAMINE THE LIFE IN
NORTH
> > > > KOREA DURING THE NEXT 53 YEARS TO SEE WHAT WE SAVED SOUTH KOREA
FROM,
> > AND
> > > > ASK THE LOCALS IF THEY WOULD TRADE THEIR LIVES FOR THUSE UP NORTH.
> > > > >
> > > > >    Luther Spoehr teaches a course on America Since 1945 at Brown
> > > > > University. AND I AM CONFIDENT HIS STUDENTS ARE MADE AWARE OF
EVERY
> > BAD
> > > > THING EVER PERPETRATED BY EVIL AMERICA.
> > > > >
> > > > > ---
> > > > >
> > > > > As one of the authors of the above book, I felt compelled to offer
> > this as
> > > > an antidote of truth to the posting last Wednesday, in response to
the
> > > > McLaughlin query, of a review of a book that is nothing more than a
> > > > small-minded and mean-spirited slapping together of baseless
> > ``theories,''
> > > > fabrications and fantasies about No Gun Ri.
> > > >
> > > > > Thank you.
> > > >
> > > > > Charlie Hanley
> > > > >
> > > > > AS AN EARLY ON COMBATANT FROM 7 AUG 50 AND AS ONE WHO HAS
CRITICIZED
> > THE
> > > > LACK OF TRAINING OF THE OCCUPATION TROOPS I CATEGORICALLY REJECT THE
> > IMAGE
> > > > OF THEM AS SCARED TEENAGERS PANICKING. THEY DID THE BEST THEY COULD
> > AGAINST
> > > > THE FORCE AGAINST THEM, AND THEY HELD UNTIL I GOT THERE TO TAKE
OVER.
> > THERE
> > > > WERE SOME OTHERS WITH ME, OF COURSE. IF ANYTHING, THEIR TRAINING DID
NOT
> > > > EQUIP THEM FOR  GRACEFUL RETREATING, A NECESSARY SKILL IN ANY COMBAT
> > > > SITUATION.
> > > > CIVILIANS DO NOT BELONG IN A COMBAT ZONE. CIVILIANS SHOULD NOT
ADVANCE
> > INTO
> > > > AN ARMED POSITION AFTER RECEIVING WARNING SHOTS. WHEN CIVILIANS
SHIELD
> > > > BELLIGERENTS AND PROVIDE COVER FOR THEIR ADVANCES THEY BECOME CANNON
> > FODDER
> > > > FOR THE SIDE UTILIZING THEM.
> > > >
> > > > WALTER E. WALLIS
> > > > INSPIRE 28
> > > > [YES, I KNOW I AM YELLING BUT ENOUGH IS ENOUGH]
> > >
>